Program 177Startling new truth from the book of Romans!

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* * *Part 1: (Miles & Dave)

Miles Robey: Hello! And welcome to WLC Radio. I’m your host, Miles Robey, and today Dave Wright is going to be revealing some shocking new truth from the book of Romans on the nature of Christ. This is an important discussion you’re not going to want to miss because it gets down to the very foundation of the plan of salvation.

Like most Christians, we used to believe that Yahushua was both fully human and fully divine and was born with the nature of Adam after the fall. After much careful study, comparing Scripture with Scripture, we now believe the Saviour was born with the nature of Adam before the fall. And the why of this matter is just as important as the what, so keep listening, listen with an open mind, and let’s take a look at what Scripture has to say about the nature of Yahushua.

Dave?

Dave Wright: It’s a bit of a touchy subject. I like what you said about listening with an open mind. That’s so important whenever a new idea is suggested. It’s so easy to fall into the trap of just wanting to listen to sermons and programs that simply reinforce what we already believe, but what’s the point in Bible study if that’s all you’re going to be doing?

Miles: We need to be like the Bereans, to study Scripture for ourselves, not just reject something because it doesn’t agree with what we already believe. Although, if I’m being strictly honest, I’ve been there before myself. You know, listening to ministers who affirm what you already believe and rejecting those whose opinions differ.

Dave: I know. I’ve been there, too. The problem is, it’s easy to denounce others who don’t agree with you rather than honestly listening to what they have to say and studying it out for yourself. It takes time and effort to be a Berean, but that’s what we all should do.

That said, I am aware that there are some subjects that people are more defensive about than others. Um, for example, it’s kind of like India with their/our sacred cows.

Miles, amused: What do you mean?

Dave: Well, one thing that tends to befuddle foreigners in India is the way cows are venerated there/here. Hindus don’t actually worship cows, but they do view them as sacred, so instead of penning them up in a field, they’re allowed to wander about. And, if they decide to lay down and chew their cud in the middle of the street, they’re allowed to do so.

Miles: Yeah, I’ve heard some funny stories about that. Cows are sacrosanct there. You don’t touch a sacred cow!

Dave: Christianity has its own sacred cow. Now, this may sound a bit blasphemous, but bear with me and you’ll see what I mean. Christianity’s sacred cow is … Yahushua!

Miles, startled laugh: Uh, yeah. That does sound more than just a bit blasphemous.

Dave: But think about it: people who would never dream of swearing, “Jesus Christ!” will still exclaim, “Oh, my God!” [Italicized words said with emphasis.] You can question or challenge anything, literally any doctrine at all, and you’ll find some people that are willing to take a look at what you have to say and study the evidence. Not many, but some.

But try questioning or challenging our traditional understanding of who Christ was and his nature and almost nobody will let you even present your evidence. They’ll shut you down so fast and won’t listen to anything more you have to say about that or anything else. You’ll be rejected as an infidel and an apostate.

Miles: That’s true.

Dave: That’s being a sacred cow. When you can’t even allow your mind to consider another possibility, let alone examine the evidence, you’re making something into a sacred cow. You’re closing your mind. And who benefits?

Miles: Satan.

Dave: Right. So, my appeal to our listeners today: Be a Berean! You don’t have to be afraid of looking at new ideas. Yah will keep your mind safe as you study. Listen to what we have to say, and then go study it out for yourself. It’s not my job, it’s not Miles’ job, to convict you. That’s the Holy Spirit’s job. But it can’t do that if you refuse to even look at the evidence presented.

Miles: Speaking for myself, I know that in the denomination I grew up in, we were actually taught not to question. We were told that if we did, it would open the “floodgates of doubt” and Satan would come in like a flood. I’m a bit embarrassed to admit it, but it wasn’t until I was an adult that I realized that teaching your followers not to question is one of the identifying hallmarks of a cult.

Dave: What’s more, it shows doubt in Yahuwah’s ability to preserve your mind as you study! He’s not going to allow the devil to deceive you against your will. That’s not how it works.

Miles: That’s a good point. In the church in which I was raised, that was the feeling I got: don’t question or the devil will come in like a flood and you’ll never get free of him. Scare tactics at its best.

Dave: And the devil wins because people are too afraid to do true, deep Bible study. You can trust the Father to keep you safe as you study, folks! And by study, I don’t just mean reaffirm what you already believe. I mean study new ideas.

Miles: How will you know if it’s truth or error if you reject it without giving the Holy Spirit a chance to impress your mind? And that only happens when we actually give something a fair look.

Dave: So. Getting back to today’s discussion. We have covered in other programs the Biblical evidence for the Saviour being fully human. Not 100% divine and 100% human. Simply human in his entirety. Yes, he was the only begotten son of Yah, but he was fully human.

He had to be fully human because divinity cannot die. It’s that simple. We’ll touch on this again later on, but for now, if you missed those earlier programs covering the Scriptural evidence for Yahushua’s full humanity, you can still listen to them on our website or on YouTube.

Miles: I think another point that Scripture is clear on is that Yahushua came to redeem the human race where Adam fell. That’s why Christ is referred to as the “second Adam.” “Where Adam fell” was from an unfallen, holy nature, not a fallen one.

Dave: That’s a good point. Holy beings can be tempted. Adam and Eve, while still holy beings, were tempted and sinned. Yahushua was tempted and did not sin. What does James 1:13 tell us? “Let no one say when he is tempted, ‘I am tempted by [Yahuwah]; for—“?

Miles: “[Yahuwah] cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.”

Dave: Exactly. Only Yahuwah cannot be tempted. Everyone else can be.

Now. What does all this have to do with the nature of Yahushua? Well, simply this: when Adam fell, he lost the pure, holy nature that he was created to have. Ever after, he and all his descendants had fallen natures. I have a fallen nature; you have a fallen nature.

Miles: Sinners enjoy sinning.

Dave: Right! It’s in our very nature to prefer sin to holiness. This is the conflict in the heart of all believers. Intellectually, we can see that the divine law is holy and good. We can even desire with all our heart to keep it, but the reality is that, due to our fallen natures, we can’t. It’s that simple.

Paul very eloquently describes this struggle in Romans chapter 7. Let’s take a look at what he has to say. Romans chapter 7 and why don’t you start with … uhhh, verse 14?

Miles turns pages: [Narrators: take your time reading this. It’s a long passage. Please emphasize certain words as indicated.]

We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do! And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.

As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. [Romans 7:14-17]

Dave: He’s talking about the fallen nature here. When you have a fallen nature, you will sin. You can’t help it! That’s your nature, your very essence.

Okay. Go on.

Miles:

For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing! Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in [Yahuwah’s] law; I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to [Yahuwah], who delivers me through Yahushua Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to [Yahuwah’s] law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. [Romans 7:18-25]

Dave: Notice that you can’t have a fallen nature and not sin. Even when you don’t want to sin, you still do it so long as you have a fallen nature. This is the struggle every believer experiences. You don’t have a struggle if you’re not a believer in the sense that, when you’re doing what your nature declares, there’s no struggle! No conflict! What you’re doing is simply consistent with what your nature dictates.

It’s only when your mind desires to be in subjection to Yahuwah that the struggle arises because there is simply no way that any of us can keep the divine law as long as we have a fallen nature.

Miles: Soooo … how did Yahushua do it?

Dave: Well, that’s the question, isn’t it? Paul has very clearly laid out the struggle between the fallen nature and a mind that desires to obey Yah. It doesn’t matter if you will to obey Yahuwah; it doesn’t matter if you say all the right words, pray all the right prayers and completely surrender to Him. Paul is saying that as long as you have a fallen nature, you will keep sinning, because that’s your very nature. It’s who you are. Your core essence is rebellious.

Chapter 8 is even more emphatic. Let’s take a look at that next. Go ahead and start at verse 1 and we’ll discuss it as you go through.

Miles:

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Yahushua, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Yahushua has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, [Yahuwah] did by sending His own son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. [Romans 8:1-4]

Dave: Now don’t read into this. It’s not saying that a person with a fallen nature can suddenly perfectly keep the divine law. And we know that because of a verse that’s coming up. Keep reading.

Miles:

For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against [Yah]; for it is not subject to the law of [Yahuwah], nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please [Yahuwah]. [Romans 8:5-8]

Dave: Did you catch that? Read it again. Verse 7.

Miles: “The carnal mind is enmity against [Yah]; for it is not subject to the law of [Yahuwah], nor indeed can be.”

Dave: “Nor indeed can be.” This is an absolute. “The carnal mind is enmity against Yahuwah.” It’s not subject to Yah’s law. Indeed, it can’t be.

Another translation puts it this way, quote: “The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to Yahuwah; it does not submit to Yahuwah’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please Yahuwah.”

This isn’t saying that a person doesn’t want to. It’s saying that a person can’t. There’s a difference. Now, we’ve always applied these verses to sinners, but if we’re going to say that Yahushua was born with the nature of Adam after the fall, it has to apply to him as well.

Miles: That’s true. Also, verse 8: “those who are in the flesh cannot please Yahuwah.” And yet we know that Yahushua did please Yah. Yahuwah Himself said so. Repeatedly. “This is My only begotten son in whom I am well pleased.”

But, but then, look at the next few verses. This sounds like we can please Yahuwah.

Listen to this. Starting at verse 9 it says:

But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Yahushua from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. [Romans 8:9-11]

How do we reconcile that?

Dave: Easy. Notice verse 11. “If the Spirit of Him who raised Yahushua from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.” He will do this. That’s future tense. He does this when He gifts us with a higher nature at Yahushua’s return.

Remember what you read before. Turn back to chapter 7. Let’s read from verse 12 through verse 16.

Miles:

Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.

Dave: An unrepentant sinner, one who is wallowing in the pleasures of sin, does not have this struggle. Only those who have “tasted and seen that Yahuwah is good” have this struggle. The struggle doesn’t simply stop because you give your heart and will to Yah; that’s actually when the struggle starts! And the struggle exists because our minds are surrendered to Yah but our bodies are slaves to our fallen natures.

Miles: Hm. Yeah. When you put it like that, it makes sense. You’re right: sinners who’ve never repented don’t have this struggle, do they? Their minds aren’t at war with their natures the way it is with believers.

Dave: I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: If Yahushua had had a fallen nature, he could not have perfectly kept the divine law because the fallen nature "does not submit to Yahuwah's law, nor can it do so." That's just fact. A fallen nature is at enmity with Yahuwah's law and cannot submit. All the wishing in the world can’t make it happen. This is the most powerful argument why Yahushua had the nature of Adam prior to the fall.

Okay. I want to go back up and take a look at verse 3 again. There’s something really important in this verse that we’ve missed. Would you read that again for us?

Miles: "For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, Yahuwah did by sending His own son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh." [Romans 8:3]

Dave: A surface reading of this verse would suggest that Yahushua had a fallen nature as we’ve always believed. After all, Paul says that Yahuwah sent His son in the “likeness of sinful flesh.”

Miles: Yeah, that’s how I’ve always heard that verse interpreted.

Dave: All right. But if that’s what Paul meant, why didn’t he simply say that? He certainly had the vocabulary to do so! He could have simply said, "For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, Yahuwah did by sending His own son in sinful flesh."

But that’s not what he said. Instead, he said in the “likeness of sinful flesh.”

Miles: What’s the significance of that? I’m not seeing what the difference is. You sure you’re not splitting hairs here?

Dave: Well, the word translated into English/Portuguese, etc. as “likeness” comes from the Greek word, homoioma. It’s number 3667 in Strong’s Expanded Dictionary. I’ve brought my copy of the dictionary. Could you just turn to the blue slip of paper and read the definition of the word? I’ll let that answer your question.

[Pronunciation: hom OY o mah. Note accent on second syllable.]

Miles: All right, let’s see. Uh, it says …

The main stress of this word is on the outward similarities with nothing being considered about the inward realities. This resemblance is an accidental one like two eggs and not a derived resemblance like a statue resembles its model. The key word is similar, like in appearance without considering the essence. This word denotes 'that which is made like something, a resemblance.'

Dave: So, no. It’s not splitting hairs to say that “in the likeness of sinful flesh” has a very different meaning from “in sinful flesh.”

If Paul believed that Yahushua had the nature of Adam after the fall, he couldn’t have written Romans 7 and 8, and he certainly would not have said that Yahuwah sent His son in the likeness of sinful flesh. The very word, homoioma, contradicts the idea that Yahushua had indeed, in his essence, a fallen nature like the rest of us.

Miles: Wow. That’s news to me. It’s amazing what we can learn when we start looking up words in the Bible.

Okay. We’re going to take a very short break and when we return, could you explain precisely what the sinful nature is and maybe you can explain further why it was impossible for Yahushua to have it.

Dave: Be happy to.

Miles: All right. We’ll be right back.

* * *

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* * *

Part 2: (Miles & Dave)

Miles: I’ve heard it suggested that Yahushua exercised no power that’s not also granted to us.

Dave: I’ve heard that thought expressed, too. And, interestingly enough, it was by an author that believed Christ took the nature after the fall and who also worked into her writings lots and lots of dos and don’ts that, quite frankly, don’t appear in Scripture at all.

Micah 6 verse 8 makes the requirements of Yahuwah’s law so simple and so clear. Do you know that verse?

Miles: Uh, yeah! “He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what doth Yahuwah require of thee but to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy Elohim.”

Dave: There’s nothing in there about starting the Sabbath 30 minutes early, or not eating cinnamon, or … I don’t know … dressing only a certain way or using only one particular translation of Scripture. It also takes into account the fact that we’ve got fallen natures. But if it is in the heart to do justice, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with Yah, He accepts that as our highest service.

Miles: I like that. He doesn’t expect the impossible. He’s knows we’re but dust.

Dave: Of course! Do loving parents demand the impossible of their kids?

Miles: Not if they’re good parents.

Dave: Right.

All right. Let’s talk now about just what, precisely, constitutes a “fallen nature.” And, as we go through this, I think it will become clear why it would have been impossible for Yahushua to have a fallen nature and still be our Saviour.

Miles: All right.

Dave: Our fallen nature is what makes all of us sinful! It’s what causes us to sin even when we don’t want to. It’s why, at heart, we’re all rebellious against the divine law. When we say we have a fallen nature, what we’re talking about is that natural inclination to sin which we all have. Sin is attractive to us, not repulsive. If we’re given a choice, our natural heart will always choose to indulge our own selfish interests rather than obey the divine law. That’s what we are naturally inclined to do because of our fallen natures.

Turn Jeremiah 17 and read verse 9 for us. The Bible minces no words in letting us know just how incurable fallen natures are. Go ahead.

Miles turns pages: Okay … it says, quote: “The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?” Unquote.

That’s pretty bleak.

Dave: There is no “cure” for the fallen nature. This is what we haven’t understood. We’ve assumed that when the heart accepts Yahushua by faith, we should suddenly be sinless, but Romans reveals that, even with full surrender, we still have fallen natures. It’s why he exclaimed, “O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from this body of death!”

To stop sinning requires a complete and total “heart” transplant, so to speak. And that doesn’t happen until the Saviour returns and the righteous dead are raised and the living are changed in the “twinkling of an eye.”

Miles: What about Galatians 2 where Paul says: “I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the son of Yah, who loved me and gave himself for me.” [Galatians 2:20]

Dave: Sure! That doesn’t mean, even then, that we can live sinlessly when we’ve got a fallen nature. Remember Romans 8:7: “The carnal mind is enmity against [Yahuwah]; for it is not subject to the law of [Yah], nor indeed can be.” That’s an absolute. There’s no wriggle room there.

But the fact that, even with our fallen natures, we can desire godliness, we can desire to be like Christ, we can desire to live in conformity to Yah’s law is the result of the work of grace on the heart. Remember that Yahuwah will never force our will. If Paul, in Galatians 2, had an unfallen nature, he wouldn’t need to “die daily.” He would simply and naturally keep Yah’s law because that would be his nature. It’s the fact that he still has a fallen nature that requires him to make a choice, and his daily choice is to surrender to the divine will. To die daily and live “by faith in the son of Yah.”

Miles: Okay, that makes sense. If he were sinless by nature, if—when he accepted Yahushua as his lord and savior—he received a sinless nature, then he wouldn’t need to “live by faith,” would he? It would just be natural to him.

Dave: You’ve got it.

Miles: It reminds me of that fable about a scorpion who sees a frog on a riverbank. The scorpion says, “Hey, would you mind giving me a lift across the river?”

The frog doesn’t have to think about it. He immediately refuses, saying, “If I let you on my back, you’ll sting me and I’ll drown. Find another way across.”

But the scorpion doesn’t give up. He scoffs at the frog’s concern and says, “Why would I do that? If I sting you, I’d drown, too. I’m just wanting to get across. If I kill you, I won’t be able to do that.”

The frog thinks that sounds logical—

Dave jokes: As much as frogs think, anyway!

Miles: Picky! Picky! It’s a fable. Anyway, the scorpion scrambles up on the frog’s back and they start across the river. About halfway across, sure enough! The scorpion stings the frog. The frog’s astonished. “Why would you do that?” He asks. “Now we’ll both die.”

“I can’t help it,” the scorpion says. “It’s my nature.”

Dave: Excellent illustration. Even though it meant the scorpion’s own death, he couldn’t stop himself. It was in his nature to sting, so that’s what he did.

Human beings are sinful, through and through. That’s our nature. We can’t be anything but sinful so long as we have that nature. Let’s take another look at Romans 8. Go ahead and start with verse 1 and read through verse, uh … verse 4.

Miles:

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Yahushua, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Yahushua has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, [Yahuwah] did by sending His own son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Dave: Now, just to clarify, the “law of sin and death” mentioned in verse 2 is not the 10 commandments or any other specific law or commandment in the law of Moses. This is speaking more broadly of the law that say, as recorded in Ezekiel 18:4, “The soul who sins shall die.”

Miles: Okay. Or, as Paul says in Romans 6 verse 23: “The wages of sin is death.”

Dave: Right. That’s the broad, over-arching “law” Paul’s referring to when he says the “law of sin and death.” It’s much more all-encompassing than some singular requirement.

Now remember, as we said before, that word “likeness” doesn’t mean Yahushua had sinful flesh. That’s talking about external similarities rather than the same essence. Why? Because the fallen nature is incurable. It can’t be subject to Yah’s law. That’s what it says in just another three verses.

What it’s talking about here is those who respond to the drawing of Yahuwah’s spirit. They walk “according to the Spirit.” They may still stumble and fall, but they desire righteousness and holiness. They yearn to be transformed into the divine image. And the reason this was necessary, the whole reason Yahuwah had to send His son in the likeness of sinful flesh is explained in verse 3. Read that again.

Miles: “For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, [Yahuwah] did by sending His own son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin.”

Dave: The law itself couldn’t do it. Paul repeats this over and over again. The law itself can’t transform our natures. It can only show us where we fail.

Miles: It’s our schoolmaster.

Dave: Precisely. Turn to Colossians 3:5. Colossians 3 verse 5. Paul gives here a list of sins and notice that all of these are the product of our fallen natures. Paul calls it our “earthly” nature but it’s the same thing.

Miles: “Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.”

Dave: The Bible tries over and over to explain just how depraved our fallen natures are. Romans 6 verse 6 speaks of the “body of sin” needing to be destroyed. Again, there’s no cure. It has to be completely re-made.

Miles: Ohhhh! Oh! Oh! Listen to this. Let me find it … it’s Ezekiel 36 verses 26 and 27. It refers to our fallen nature as being a “stony heart.” It says: “A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”

It's been right before us this whole time and we just haven’t seen it. He’s not “fixing” or “curing” our hearts from being stony. He’s actually removing them and giving us new hearts.

Dave: And notice, He’s the one doing the work. We can’t fix ourselves. We can only make the choice to die daily. Then He does the work. He’ll give us new hearts—new natures—when Yahushua returns.

Another way we can know that Yahushua had the unfallen nature of Adam is that, even as a child, he was perfect. Luke says of Christ’s childhood that he “increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with [Yahuwah] and men.” [Luke 2:52] Now contrast that with the rest of us. What does Psalm 51 verse 5 have to say about babies who are born with sinful natures?

Miles turns pages: Psalm 51 …?

Dave: Verse 5.

Miles: “Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.”

Dave: Verse 6 says, “Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb.” Now. How is it possible to be faithful to Yah if we are born with, conceived with, fallen natures?

Miles: It’s not.

Dave: No, it’s not. Um, Psalm 58 verse 3. Read that next.

Miles turns pages: “Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies.”

Dave: This is the result of having a fallen nature. Not even children are exempt because there is no cure for the fallen nature. It has to be completely exchanged for a new, different nature. You don’t have to teach a child to sin. They’re born knowing how to!

Miles: Even babies can cry in anger and toddlers can lie.

Dave: It’s the parents’ job to instruct them in righteousness. They’re not born knowing that. The only child ever born knowing that was Yahushua, because he’s the only one ever born with an unfallen nature.

Miles: How was he born that way? I mean, how was it that Mary’s fallen nature wasn’t passed on?

Dave: I don’t know. I don’t have all the answers. I don’t know how the breath of Yah—the Holy Spirit—was able to fertilize an egg in Mary’s womb so that he could be conceived. But we know it happened. You could just as easily ask those who believe he had a fallen nature how he was able to keep the law when Scripture says the natural heart is at enmity with the law. Just where did divinity end and humanity begin? If he laid aside his divinity to die, did that part of himself stay conscious?

Miles: But then, by definition, that’s not really death, is it?

Dave: Not having all the answers does not mean something is error. We’ll continue to have questions until we can ask the Father directly.

Miles: It’s possible that our minds simply aren’t able at this point to grasp everything.

Dave: That, too. But I do believe that the evidence indicates Yahushua was born with an unfallen nature.

Let’s talk now about temptation. Being tempted is not the same thing as sinning. Sometimes people feel guilty for being tempted but being tempted isn’t a sin. Christ was tempted!

Would you read Hebrews 4, verses 14 and 15? This is an important passage because it makes very clear that Yahushua was indeed tempted. Hebrews 4, verses 14 and 15.

Miles: “Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Yahushua the Son of Yah, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.”

Dave: Yahushua did not need to have a fallen nature in order to be tempted “in all points like as we are.”

Miles: I guess that’s true. Adam had a pure nature when he was tempted on one point like as we are: appetite.

Dave: Wellll … you could argue that both Adam and Eve were tempted in all points like we are through the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life. But that’s another study for a different time.

Anyway, the point is that holy beings can be tempted. Adam and Eve were tempted and fell. Some of the angels were tempted and fell, but other angels stayed loyal to Yahuwah when tempted. Temptation does not require having a fallen nature, nor is it sin.

I’d like you to turn now to the first chapter of James. There’s an interesting passage here that can shed some light on the subject.

Miles turns pages: James … James. One of those impossible-to-find little epistles.

Dave: It comes right after Hebrews.

Miles: Ah! That helps. Okay. James 1. Which verse?

Dave: Uh, verses … 12 through 15.

Miles: All right. It says:

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love him. Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by [Yahuwah]”; for [Yahuwah] cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

Dave: So, again, only Yahuwah cannot be tempted. Temptation isn’t sin and isn’t the result of having a fallen nature. Sin occurs when we decide we want to indulge in whatever sin is being presented so temptingly to us. Because we have fallen natures, when a temptation presents itself, it strikes an answering chord with the sin within and we respond.

Miles: I remember reading once, “Temptation without meets corruption within and the man falls.”

Dave: Good way to put it. We embrace the sin because that is what we want. It’s what we desire. It’s what is consistent with our fallen nature.

By contrast, when Yahushua was tempted, there was nothing in him to respond to the temptation. He knew Yahuwah’s will and anything that deviated from that was not enticing to him because his will, his very nature, was aligned with Yah’s. That is how he overcame where Adam fell. Adam chose to place pleasing his wife above obeying his Creator and so he sinned. He was tempted, but it was a choice to sin because he did not yet have a fallen nature. When Yahushua was tempted, he consistently chose to remain obedient to Yahuwah’s revealed will.

Miles: Okay, I’ve got a question.

Dave: All right.

Miles: Back at Hebrews 4 where it says Yahushua was “in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.” I always took that to mean that the Saviour was tempted but did not give in to temptation and sin.

Dave: Before studying this out, I always interpreted it that way, too. And that’s certainly one interpretation of the phrase and it is an accurate interpretation. On that I believe we all agree.

However, there can be a deeper meaning to it, as well, and that is simply that Yahushua was tempted in all points like we are tempted but when he was tempted, he had no sin inside himself striking an answering chord. In other words, with an unfallen nature, there was nothing within himself that responded to the drawing of sin. Yes, he was tempted … yet without sin.

Miles: I like how you said earlier that Romans 8 is an absolute. I’ve never thought of it that way, but I can see your point. It is an absolute. You can’t have a fallen nature and be subject to Yah’s law because “The carnal mind is enmity against [Yahuwah]; for it is not subject to the law of [Yah], nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please [Yah].”

Dave: Not even Yahushua could be subject to Yahuwah’s law with a fallen nature. It’s just not possible.

The sheer impossibility of pleasing Yahuwah, of being subject to the divine law while having a fallen nature means that Yahushua could not have had a fallen nature. It’s just that simple.

Miles: So if he were tempted in all points like as we are, yet without sin, it means there was nothing in him that responded to the devil’s enticements.

Dave: And that could only happen if he had an UNfallen nature.

Miles: All right. Let’s talk now about the why. Why does all this even matter? Are we, maybe, getting bogged down in minutia here?

Dave: I don’t think so. This issue is very important, and it has to do with the technicalities of our salvation.

Our traditional understanding has been that no being has ever been subject to death while possessing an unfallen nature. And this is precisely why Yahushua's death was such an astonishment to the on-looking universe. He didn’t need to die! As defined by the divine law itself, he could have lived forever! He met the requirements, which was obedience. And that’s precisely why he could be our Saviour.

Turn to John 10. Yahushua himself explained this. John 10 verses 17 and 18.

Miles: “The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

Dave: Yahushua’s sacrifice was entirely voluntary. He ransomed the human race right where Adam fell, which was withstanding temptation with an unfallen nature. He didn’t have to die, but he chose to in order to save us.

Miles: That’s incredible love.

Dave: Again, this is precisely why it was such a great sacrifice! No holy being had ever died before. This is also why it had to be a willing sacrifice. He willingly laid down his life. Turn to 2 Corinthians chapter 5. It’s talking about the legal process of salvation: 2 Corinthians 5 and start with verse 18.

Miles:

All this is from [Yah], who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that [Yahuwah] was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation. [Yahuwah] made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of [Yahuwah]. [2 Corinthians 5:18-19, 21]

Dave: This was the transaction that bought our salvation.

Miles: And, according to Romans 8, it would not have been possible had Yahushua had a fallen nature.

Dave: Not just Romans 8! Technically, legally, he could not have been contaminated with a fallen nature because then he would not have been “perfect” as all sacrifices were required to be. Read Exodus 12 verse 5 for us. This spells out that each sacrifice had to be absolutely perfect. An animal that had any sort of blemish was not accepted. Go ahead. What does that say?

Miles: “The animals you choose must be year-old males without defect, and you may take them from the sheep or the goats.”

Dave: The priests would actually inspect the animals. This is why, later on, it often became easier for the people to simply purchase an animal from those who sold them near the temple. Of course, that opened the door to a lot of abuse, but they were diligent about making sure only perfect animals were used for sacrifice.

The reason was that these were symbolic, of course, of the Messiah who would also be perfect. I want you to read 1 Peter chapter 1 verse 19. Uh … why don’t you actually start at verse 17? Peter’s not as bad as Paul, but he also wrote these really long sentences, so let’s get the complete sentence: 1 Peter 1, verses 17 to 19.

Miles:

And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.

Dave: We’ve always said that Christ was a perfect lamb because he didn’t sin, but as we’ve seen from Romans, if he’d had a fallen nature out all, he could not have been considered without blemish because—why? “The carnal mind is—?”

Miles: “Because the carnal mind is enmity against [Yahuwah]; for it is not subject to the law of [Yah], nor indeed can be.”

Dave: You cannot have a fallen nature and not have enmity against Yahuwah. It’s impossible. So in order to be a sacrifice without spot or blemish, Yahushua had to have the unfallen nature of Adam before sin.

The very fact that Yahushua was a perfect human being, maintaining a perfect, sinless and holy nature is precisely what made his gift such an unprecedented act and why, throughout eternity, Scripture says Yahushua’s name will be exalted.

When we realize what he has accomplished as our substitute, then our love is awakened and our desire is to be like Christ, because Christ reveals what Yahuwah would be like if He were human. It’s then that we strive to emulate Christ as our example.

Paul explained this really well in Philippians 2, verses 5 to 10. Could you read that for us? Philippians 2, verses 5 to 10.

Miles turns pages:

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Yahushua: Who, being in the form of Yahuwah, thought it not robbery to be equal with Yahuwah: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore Yahuwah also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Yahushua every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth.

Dave: Notice in verse 7 it says that Yahushua was “made in the likeness of men.” This is the exact same word used in Romans 8:3 where it says Christ was sent in the “likeness of sinful flesh.” Homoioma, referring to external similarities rather than claiming that the very essence is the same.

The conclusion is inescapable: Yahushua overcame on the same ground on which Adam fell. He had an unfallen nature and that’s what made his sacrifice so unprecedented. But it also gives us hope: Yahuwah does not expect us to perfectly keep His law so long as we have fallen nature, but we can cling by faith to Yahushua as our substitute and someday soon, when he returns, we’ll be gifted with new hearts, new unfallen natures.

* * *

Mid-point call letters: (Sharon)

You are listening to World’s Last Chance Radio on WBCQ, at 9330 kilohertz on the 31-meter band.

World’s Last Chance Radio! Preparing a people for the Saviour’s soon return!

* * *Daily Promise: (Laura Lee)

Hello! This is Elise O’Brien with your daily promise from Yah’s word.

There’s one promise in particular I find fascinating. It’s found in Exodus 14:14. It’s not a promise we quote very often but it’s a powerful one all the same.

The Children of Israel had just fled Egypt and the Egyptians had them trapped next to the Red Sea. Of course, there was panic but Moses told them, quote: “Yahuwah will fight for you; you need only to be still.” There are times in life when problems are so overwhelming, when the danger is so great that we don’t know what to do. If you find yourself in that situation, claim this promise. Sometimes, it’s even difficult to know what to pray for.

Romans 8 says, “Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of [Yah].”

We have been given great and precious promises. Go and start claiming!

* * *Part 3: (Miles & Dave)

Dave: One thing we didn’t get to in our earlier discussion that I really want to take just a few minutes to talk about is a comparison of the fruits of the various teachings on the nature of Christ.

Turn to Matthew 7 and read verses, uh … 16 to 20. Go ahead once you’ve got it.

Miles turns pages:

You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Dave: In context, Christ is talking here about false prophets, but the principle can be applied to many different situations.

So what is the “fruit” of the teaching that Yahushua was born with the nature of Adam after the fall?

Well, when we believe that Yahushua (contrary to Paul's statements in Romans) triumphed while having a fallen nature, the natural extension of that belief is that we should be able to perfectly keep the law, too!

Miles, thoughtfully: Hmmm. I never really analyzed it before but you’re right. Christians view Christ as our example as well as our substitute. So if he, our example, was able to perfectly keep the divine law while having a fallen nature, that implies that Yahuwah expects us to do so, too. Of course, if we just surrender enough.

Dave: Sure. It’s the logical conclusion to draw.

What I’ve noticed, however, is that while the talk is of surrender and faith, the reality is just the opposite. The expectation that we, too, must be holy (because if Christ could do it, by George, we can, too!) leads invariably to salvation by works. It's subtle. Very subtle. But it's there. And the more we desperately try to be perfect, the more we "work" at it. And the more we "work" at it, the heavier our burdens become.

Miles: It’s very subtle, isn’t it? I don’t think anyone assumes they can keep the law in their own strength, so yeah. A lot of talk of faith and surrender. But very little joy. Instead, we start hyper-focusing on the … the minutia of the law. For example, if you believe the Sabbath starts at sundown on Friday (because Leviticus 23 says Day of Atonement starts at sundown), then you should really be ready at least 30 minutes prior to sundown just so you can “guard the edges of the Sabbath.”

Dave: Basically, we turn ourselves into modern day Pharisees because that’s precisely what they did. You’ve got a cold and your nose is running? Can’t carry a kerchief. That would be work. You’ve got to attach it to your robe—before Sabbath, of course, because the act of attaching it to your robe would also be work.

Miles: The Hassidic Jews still do this. Can’t turn a light on during the Sabbath hours; that would be work! So, you have to hire a goy—a gentile—to come in and do that for you.

Dave: Which, of course, actually desecrates the fourth commandment they’re trying so hard to keep.

Miles: Right! Right! The fourth commandment says: “In it [the Sabbath] you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.” [Exodus 20:10] Having someone, anyone, come in to break the law for you doesn’t keep the law.

Dave: And even with full surrender, as long as we’ve got fallen natures, we can’t keep the divine law any more than the Pharisees could. This leads to another problem: criticizing others.

These heavy burdens are so overwhelming, the impossibility so discouraging, that to make ourselves feel better about our own chances, we begin to critique those about us, and try to make ourselves feel better about our chances of being saved by focusing on their failings: We might not be perfect, but look what she wears! How immodest!! Look what he eats! How intemperate!! Look what they spend their money on! What a waste!! We might not be perfect, but at least we’re better than … them!

This is the “fruit” of that doctrine.

Miles: I can see that. In fact, I’ve been there myself. I’ve noticed that the more conservative the Christian, the more exacting they attempt to keep the divine law, sadly the more legalistic and critical of others they often become.

Dave: And what’s really sad is that they’re often not even aware that they’ve fallen into this trap but finding fault with others always goes hand-in-glove with legalism.

Miles: It really does. This is why the most conservative churches are full of unhappy Christians who are constantly finding fault with fellow believers, making up Pharisaical rules and judging others for not abiding by their man-made rules. It’s because they are attempting what Scripture says is impossible: perfect conformity to Yahuwah's law while still in possession of a fallen nature. This doctrine turns Christians into Pharisees!

Dave: By contrast, the fruit of the doctrine that Christ literally triumphed where Adam fell is one of faith, and joy, and gratitude. It’s the fruits of this teaching that, to me, are consistent with the gospel.

See, when we believe that Yahushua had a fallen nature, our primary focus tends to be on him as our example of perfect obedience. However, when we realize that he had the same unfallen nature Adam before the fall, our focus is on Christ as our substitute and surety. He’s our Saviour; he redeemed us. This has its own “fruits” which is increased faith, devotion, love, and gratitude. Any obedience then springs naturally from love and gratitude rather than an attempt to … “guard the edges of the law” through diligence in the minutia. Do you see what I’m saying?

Miles: I do! I do! I never thought of it that way, but I can totally see what you’re saying and the difference produced in the life by the difference in focus … amazing!

Dave: I just want to clarify that even with a pure nature, Yahushua is still our example. He doesn't have to have a fallen nature to be our example. The fruit of this doctrine is joyous, grateful Christians who embrace the good news that Yahushua is their substitute, doing for them what they can't do for themselves.

Miles: We’ll still stumble and fall occasionally as long as we’ve got fallen natures, but I can really see how the natural result of this truth is obedience that comes from a heart of gratitude, rather than the desperate works that accompanies the other doctrine.

Dave: The ripple effects of error, just like the ripple effects of truth, are always so far reaching. This is why it’s very important that we always be Bereans. Actively look for more truth! Don’t just assume that the doctrines we’ve inherited are infallible.

Miles: And, of course, investigate with an open mind.

Thanks for sharing this today, Dave. I think I speak for all of us when I say you’ve given us something new to think about.

Thank you for tuning in to today’s program. I hope you can join us again tomorrow, and until then, remember: Yahuwah loves you . . . and He is safe to trust!

[Narrator: don’t rush that last line. Say it gently but with emphasis.]

* * *Pre-recorded Sign off (Sharon)

You have been listening to WLC Radio.

World’s Last Chance is committed to bringing the gospel of the kingdom of Yah to the world. Prophecy and current events indicate the Saviour will return in the very near future. This will be followed by gifting the saints with immortality and setting up Yah’s kingdom here on earth. There’s no time to waste. Accept the gift of salvation today and allow Yahuwah to cover you with the righteousness of Christ.

This program, as well as past episodes of Radio WLC, are available on our website at WorldsLastChance.com. Click on the Radio WLC icon at the top right of the homepage. Join us again tomorrow for another truth-filled message on WBCQ, at 9330 kilohertz on the 31-meter band.

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